Question 1

Welcome — a chat across the Tasman  · 02:01

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: Thank you, Tim Forcey, for joining me today. You’ve got quite a reputation as the founder of My Efficient Electric Home, and I’ve been reading your book. We’re coming up to an election this year in New Zealand, and I thought it would be really nice to talk to someone from across the ditch — to get some thoughts on home energy efficiency, and what you’ve been learning in Australia that we could apply here. So welcome, and thanks for joining me.

Tim: Thanks for having me. We’ve got an election over here too. I live in Victoria, in Melbourne, and we’ve got a state election toward the end of the year. The current state government has been very proactive — offering rebates and subsidies to help people move away from gas. So it’ll be interesting to see how they fare, and what comes afterwards.

Carolyn: We’re starting to see some policies released here too. We’ve been very light on subsidies in New Zealand compared with Australia. So tell us a little about your journey — you were originally in the gas sector, and then you switched completely to being a home energy efficiency advisor and started this group. I was looking this morning: 185,000 people are in it now, which is amazing.

Question 2

From gas engineer to electric-home advocate  · 02:30

Accepted Answer

Tim: The Facebook group is My Efficient Electric Home — MEEH — and everybody gets the acronym wrong, so we picked a pretty confusing name, but that’s what it is. I trained as a chemical engineer and worked overseas in petrochemicals, then later in oil and gas. I migrated to Australia a long time ago to work in the gas industry — that’s where the American accent comes from. But given what I knew about the climate emergency, around 2010 I had to give up on the fossil fuel industry. I’d tried to make change from within, but eventually I just couldn’t stay with it any longer.

Question 3

A third the cost: the Melbourne Uni discovery · 04:26

Accepted Answer

Tim: I was lucky to get a gig at the University of Melbourne in 2015. We looked at methane emissions from unconventional gas, we looked at the electricity grid — but we also did some home economics. We were about the first ones over here to work out that even in 2015, you could heat a home with a reverse-cycle air conditioner for about a third the cost of burning gas. That was a huge cost-of-living benefit for people — before we even had a cost-of-living crisis. And more and more Australian homes were being fitted with reverse-cycle air conditioners, but people would put them in for summer and never think to use them in winter. So that’s been the main message ever since: heat with your air conditioner. It’s a heat pump — it gets free heat from the environment outside, and it’s by far the cheapest way to heat.

Tim: As a result of that, I started the Facebook group, and later a business where I go into people’s homes and help them out. And at one point I was asked to write a book — the My Efficient Electric Home Handbook. I wrote it for Australia, but with New Zealand in mind as well.

Carolyn: It’s totally applicable to New Zealand. I couldn’t find my copy before we started — it’s somewhere in my house. It’s stocked in New Zealand libraries too, so Kiwis are definitely reading it. The thing I really liked is how easy it is to read. It’s not high-tech or confusing, and it’s got great cartoons in it, so there’s a bit of a laugh.

Tim: We put in cartoons from a noted cartoonist over here, and only one chart or graph — so if you don’t like charts, you won’t find many. I had a lot of help from an editor, so it came out pretty good in the end.

Question 4

What a home energy visit looks like · 06:40

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: You mentioned you’re heading to a house this afternoon. When you do your home-energy advisor visits, what are the common things you’re looking for, and the common things you find on site?

Tim: I go in as a business now — people ring me up and I’m there for about three hours. It’s like a tutorial: together we look at everything. I’ve got a ladder to crawl into the roof space and check the insulation, a thermal imaging camera to talk about insulation in the walls, a bucket to measure shower-head flow.

We look at the electricity bills, and at the roof on Google Earth to see if it’s suitable for solar — and if they already have solar, whether it’s still working and how it’s producing.

That’s basically the fifteen chapters of the book. And in particular, home health: a lot of homes over here get too damp in winter — I think that might be a New Zealand issue too.

But really, why people ring up is because they’re uncomfortable. Forget the energy bills, forget being green — what motivates people is that the weather turns cold and they’re freezing in homes we often call glorified tents. That’s where you can really help: making things more comfortable, healthier, and cheaper to run.

Question 5

Sorting the priorities (and why double glazing often waits) · 09:03

Accepted Answer

Tim: A lot of it is sorting out priorities — helping people understand the relative costs, and whether there are subsidies that make things more affordable. Someone might think they need double-glazed windows, but often that’s the last thing to do. Draught-proofing, fixing the roof-space insulation, getting a child with asthma off gas cooking and onto induction, taking advantage of any solar or battery subsidies, and getting good window coverings — blinds or curtains that make the windows feel warmer through winter. It might turn out double glazing is way down the priority list. Then the next step is being able to say: “I’m independent, but here are three insulators I know who do a good job, or three solar businesses.” Go get quotes, and I’ll stay in touch if you hit any troubles.

What we’re finding in Melbourne is that gas used to be cheap, but we’ve basically depleted it after 60 years, and it’s no longer cheap. Meanwhile air conditioners, hot water heat pumps, solar and batteries are better than ever. So businesses have sprung up with names like “Get Off Gas” or “Goodbye Gas” or “All Electric Homes,” helping people through the whole transition — and often doing the insulation and draught-proofing too.

Carolyn: In New Zealand we’ve got similar services — some public, through councils. There are eco-design advisors through some councils, so anyone here could look those up. And there are private providers like you, Tim, who do the same thing.

Question 6

The myths that hold people back · 11:26

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: Is there a common myth among the homeowners you visit — something stopping them doing the obvious thing first?

Tim: Across the whole population, the myth we’ve largely gotten over in Victoria now was that gas was good, or cheap, or somehow green. Ten or five years ago it was harder to tell people they had options far better than gas. Or the belief that you can’t cook properly on induction. Those myths were supported by the gas industry, because they could see they were in trouble — we had any number of ads about how gas was fantastic for cooking. Even the advertising regulators got involved, because claims like “gas is cheaper” were basically a lie. And the other myth: don’t turn on the air conditioner, it’ll cost a fortune. Some of that comes from summer, and from the old days when air conditioners were less efficient.

Question 7

Don't demonise the air conditioner · 13:47

Accepted Answer

Tim: In summer, use your air conditioner if you need to — possibly to stay alive. We’ve seen a lot of deaths in Europe recently from the heat, because homes there aren’t fitted out to keep people cool. But in winter, definitely use it: it’s a third the cost of burning gas, and maybe a quarter or a fifth the cost of a resistive electric heater. We spent 20, 30, 40 years demonising the air conditioner, and we’re turning that around. Some of my greenest clients are the ones who put off getting an air conditioner for years — and then realised it’s the cheapest and greenest way to heat.

Carolyn: It feels like we’re going through similar things, maybe a bit behind you. Our gas fields are depleting faster than expected, and there’s been a bit of panic in the last year over supply. I’ve worked in sustainability for 25 years but haven’t done much on my own home — so this is my year. My gas daily charge alone was just over a dollar a day before I even started; now it’s $1.77 a day, in the space of a few months. And I heard yesterday someone in Wellington is paying $2.60 a day just for the gas line charge. Gas used to be the cheapest hot-water heating in New Zealand. Now it’s by far the most expensive, and people are starting to hear about hot water heat pumps and make that switch.

Tim: A terminology note: in mainland Australia we call the reverse-cycle air conditioner a “split system,” and over here “heat pump” usually means the hot water heat pump. In Tasmania, apparently, they call the reverse-cycle air conditioner a heat pump — like you do. So the terminology itself has been part of the problem.

Question 8

How a heat pump works: the shoe-store story · 16:06

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: Nobody really understands how a heat pump works. I watched one of your other videos where you had a good analogy — your wife’s, about shoes.

Tim: Yes — the shoe story. With a reverse-cycle air conditioner for heating, or a heat pump for hot water, the thing might be around 400% efficient, because it harvests free heat from outside. It’s like going to the shoe store, paying for one pair of shoes, and they give you four. You walk home with four pairs. Whereas basic resistive electric heating is 100% efficient — sounds good, but it’s not 400%. You put your money down and you get the one pair. And with gas it’s even worse: a gas system might be 50% efficient. What’s the first thing you do when you buy gas? You set it on fire — and half the energy goes up the exhaust. So with gas it’s like you pay for a pair of shoes, they set the right one on fire, and you go home with just the left shoe.

Carolyn: I can relate to the shoe story — it’s a good one. The fact you get something for nothing is a good thing.

Question 9

Building a movement: MEEH, Rewiring Aotearoa and community groups · 18:24

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: You’ve really built a movement in Australia — people sharing their concerns and helping each other navigate this. There’s a growing movement here too, and Rewiring Aotearoa has started up. Any advice for New Zealanders supporting each other to make the change?

Tim: The Facebook group is one way — 185,000 members, and about a thousand new members a week, so it stays red hot, and most of them aren’t robots. There’s a spin-off group for New Zealand — Going Electric New Zealand — they came up with their own name, which is fine. And there’s Saul Griffith, who came back from America after helping the Biden administration on greener policies, moved to New South Wales, and started Rewiring Australia — with a spin-off now in Rewiring Aotearoa. Councils can be a good source of information too. When my book came out, over a hundred councils, libraries and community groups contacted me, and I was running all over the country doing presentations. So look around — you’ll probably find a community group getting into electrification or home improvement.

Carolyn: We’ve got a series of Electrify groups started through Rewiring Aotearoa, building across the country — running events — and different programmes through some councils. In Auckland we have the Eco Neighbourhoods group, which is street-based and does a whole series of things.

Question 10

Seeing it for yourself: expos and community events · 20:49

Accepted Answer

Tim: Probably the biggest community group over here is Electrify Boroondara — just one council area of Melbourne — and they’ve been amazing. Every year they put on an expo: you hear from speakers, but they also bring the businesses in, so you can actually see what a hot water heat pump looks like, or watch an induction cooktop being run off an electric car, cooking some sausages. Suppliers might bring models of double-glazed windows; there might be people talking about draught-proofing or insulation. Those events are a great way for people to actually see what these things are about.

Carolyn: Definitely. I think the Wellington series of events is on at the moment, for anyone interested.

Question 11

Tim’s own home: electrifying a 1994 weatherboard · 23:08

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: Tell me what you’ve done in your own house — you’ve clearly been practising what you preach.

Tim: When I lived in America we’d buy an old house and fix up the insulation and draught-proofing. Same thing here — we bought an old weatherboard in Melbourne in 1994. Back then, double glazing wasn’t really a thing here, and I’m not sure we could even have found it. But I insisted we at least put insulation in the walls. We put in ducted gas heating and a gas hot water service, and an old wall air conditioner that was hideously inefficient. Over time we did various renovations — finally brought in some double-glazed windows. Our first solar panels went on in 2008, a small one-kilowatt, six-panel system, because there was a big subsidy then. But we fully electrified in 2015, after we’d worked out at Melbourne Uni that it was a third the cost to heat with air conditioners. We bought our first two modern split-system reverse-cycle air conditioners in summer, so the first thing we used them for was cooling — but the point was winter, and sure enough it worked, and we stopped using the ducted gas. Then a hot water heat pump, then an induction cooktop, then more solar. With investments like that — and it’s the only graph in the book — you can end up saving around AU$3,000 a year, because you’re not paying for gas or its fixed supply charge, and the solar cuts your electricity too. Then a home battery, and just over the last year, our first electric car. I was slow to it, but they’re amazing — quiet, no smell, no vibration, and hardly costing anything to run.

Question 12

14 degrees, not 2: what a good envelope buys you · 25:30

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: This last week my partner came into the kitchen and said it was two degrees. So we’ve got some work to do, Tim. We’ve got a 1920s cottage — single glazing still, though we’ve got underfloor and ceiling insulation. You can really feel the heat going out through that single glazing.

Tim: We don’t overheat — we dress appropriately. In the evening watching television we might have the heater on at around 18 degrees. The biggest flaw in our home is no underfloor insulation, because we’re low to the ground. But we’ll come out in the morning and the kitchen isn’t two degrees — it’s fourteen or fifteen. It’s only lost three or four degrees overnight, with no heating on, thanks to the double glazing, insulation, draught-proofing and good window coverings. It might be three degrees outside. So it’s a comfortable place to end up — you don’t mind coming to the kitchen. You might put on a hoodie while you turn the heater back on and warm it to 18, and that doesn’t take long or use much energy. There’s a lot to be said for fourteen degrees ahead of two.

Question 13

Home health and humidity · 27:46

Accepted Answer

Tim: With single glazing you’ll also see moisture condensation. The healthiest range for relative humidity in the home is 40 to 60%. For $20 you can get a humidity monitor and keep an eye on it. If you’ve got condensation on the windows, a chamois to dry them and send the moisture down the drain is cheap dehumidifying — but you might find you actually need to run a dehumidifier to get below 60%. If you’ve got allergies, asthma or chronic rhinitis, you definitely want to avoid the mould zone: once you’re up around 70% humidity, you’re into mould territory. Your single-glazed windows can be a dead giveaway that there’s a lot of moisture in the home. With double glazing you might not notice, because you don’t get condensation until it’s really cold outside.

Carolyn: I stepped out my front door this week to see my neighbour in the front bedroom with a squeegee, taking condensation off the window. There’s been research released recently in New Zealand showing we’re getting better at heating our living spaces, but our bedrooms are still really cold. And with newer, more airtight homes, they’re finding a lot of moisture and mould in the roof cavity. So we’re solving some issues but not others — there’s work to do in the construction industry here.

Question 14

Get gas out before you seal up: managed ventilation · 30:05

Accepted Answer

Tim: Things like making sure the bathroom fan extracts out of the building, not just into the roof space, can be useful. We’d like people to do draught-proofing — but we recommend they only do it after they’ve got the gas out of the house, because you don’t want to die of carbon-monoxide poisoning from a gas heater. You also need to educate people about moisture, and about opening windows for a period each day to purge carbon dioxide — because once you’ve draught-proofed, you can’t rely on an old leaky wall vent or chimney. Draught-proofing is worth it: you go from uncontrolled air leakage to managed ventilation. But you do have to manage the ventilation.

Question 15

Rating homes: NatHERS, HomeStar  · 32:23

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: There’s a lot to be said for buying a new home that’s well designed — the green housing ratings are a good way to do that. Do you come across many people aware of ratings? We’ve got HomeStar in New Zealand for home performance, and NABERSNZ for offices started in Australia. Have you got an equivalent for houses?

Tim: For new builds we’ve long had NatHERS — the National Home Energy Rating Scheme. It started at five stars, went to six, and now we’re at seven. Each star is a big reduction in the energy needed to heat or cool. In Melbourne the requirement is now seven stars, which means mostly double-glazed windows — you can’t really hit seven without them. Six stars meant insulating under the floor; five meant insulating walls. And in Canberra — and in Victoria for a time — we’ve had rating systems for existing homes. In Canberra you can’t buy, sell or rent a home without a rating. Victoria’s was the Residential Efficiency Scorecard, now being absorbed into NatHERS. If you want to see what Australia’s doing, just Google “NatHERS.”

Carolyn: Is it something real estate agents buy into when selling — do they disclose it, or is it mandatory?

Tim: It’s not mandatory yet, except in Canberra, so uptake hasn’t been great. Occasionally an article notes that buyers value the more comfortable, efficient places. People trained to offer these ratings would love it to be mandatory — guaranteed work — but no government has been willing to take it on, and there’d be pushback from real estate. Still, if you had a wonderful home, you could get a rating on your own bat and tell people about it. We also have Sustainable House Day, run by the not-for-profit Renew — who you may know in New Zealand as the publishers of Renew and Sanctuary magazines — where people can visit a home that’s been improved and rated, and see it sitting at eight, nine, even ten stars.

Carolyn:We’re pretty good at rating fridges and washing machines — you’d like to think we could rate the biggest energy user of all, the home.

Tim: But it’s costly and complex. The newer approach is that you scan a room with your phone; it takes the dimensions, knows which way it faces, and with AI can interpret a window and its coverings. You might need five hundred — or a thousand — pieces of information to model a home. I used to model oil refineries and chemical plants, and honestly those are easier, because homes have so many variables. In a chemical plant you minimise the variables; with homes we happily throw in another skylight or a different window. But you’ve covered the basics: insulation, draught-proofing, double or triple glazing to get the envelope right; heat-pump technology for space and water heating; and induction or electric cooking, so we’re not putting toxic gases into our lungs and homes.

Question 16

The priority order, and $1.50 a day · 37:01

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: I’ve seen articles saying gas cooking is the equivalent of smoking inside — which, if you’ve got asthmatic children, is the last thing you’d want. And then, later on, if you can afford it, solar. Good curtains are a great low-cost first step — when I moved in, mine were all secondhand.

Tim: My grandmother cooked over coal; then gas came along and seemed cleaner; now we can move on to electric. In our old weatherboard in Melbourne we’d spend about a dollar fifty a day to heat the place on the coldest days — whereas I have clients spending 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 dollars a day on gas heating. That’s what’s possible as you improve the thermal envelope and heat with air conditioners. And in a lot of New Zealand cities your climate isn’t that different from Melbourne — it’s not minus twenty in Wellington. So you shouldn’t have big heating bills, and you should be comfortable: able to sit in your home comfortable, spending, in the worst case, a dollar fifty a day.

Question 17

Comfort is the key: closing thoughts · 39:15

Accepted Answer

Carolyn: We get caught up in the cost of things and forget the monthly bill — and the impact on our families’ health, and the home itself. Tim, I know you’ve got to go and look at a house this afternoon. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise — I hope you’ve inspired some Kiwis to find local eco-housing advisors like you.

Tim: Sometimes it’s just seeing a home in good shape and going, “I didn’t know this was possible — look how comfortable this is in the middle of winter, and you’ve hardly got the heater on.” Here’s the book again, the My Efficient Electric Home Handbook. And if you want to do a speaking tour in New Zealand, let me know — we’d love to have you. Very good. My website is timforcey.com.au, if anyone with a house around Melbourne wants it checked out. And the Facebook group is My Efficient Electric Home — MEEH. It’s also a database: you can search it for a specific topic like glazing or heat pumps. You may not have the exact same products in New Zealand, but a lot of the brands are similar, so it’s good information for both sides of the ditch. It’s been running eleven years and gets fifty posts a day — so there’s a lot there, and people ask the same good questions over and over.

Carolyn: What’s not new to you is sometimes new to us. Thank you so much, Tim — really appreciate your time. Let’s plan to get you over to New Zealand soon.

How to Create an Efficient Electric Home

Tim Forcey trained as a chemical engineer and spent years working in oil and gas before walking away from fossil fuels in 2010.

Key takeaways

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Tim Forcey trained as a chemical engineer and spent years working in oil and gas before walking away from fossil fuels in 2010.

Key takeaways

Transcript

02:01Welcome — a chat across the Tasman

02:30From gas engineer to electric-home advocate

04:26A third the cost: the Melbourne Uni discovery

06:40What a home energy visit looks like

09:03Sorting the priorities (and why double glazing often waits)

11:26The myths that hold people back

13:47Don't demonise the air conditioner

16:06How a heat pump works: the shoe-store story

18:24Building a movement: MEEH, Rewiring Aotearoa and community groups

20:49Seeing it for yourself: expos and community events

23:08Tim’s own home: electrifying a 1994 weatherboard

25:3014 degrees, not 2: what a good envelope buys you

27:46Home health and humidity

30:05Get gas out before you seal up: managed ventilation

32:23Rating homes: NatHERS, HomeStar

37:01The priority order, and $1.50 a day

39:15Comfort is the key: closing thoughts

Expert in this interview

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